Hell? Yes!

Someone shared some teaching yesterday that has really disturbed me.

Before I get into it let me just say I know I’ll get some heat for this. I know I’m pointing a finger. I know I’m pushing buttons. I know I’ll get blacklisted by some.

I’m gonna be okay with that I think. I’m going to do my best to say this in love, but truth must be told and I believe it good and right to speak out against wrong teachings. It is important to note that I am not going to judge the writer, but I am speaking out against his teaching.

Matthew 7:1-2 ESV
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

I believe this instruction and I believe that putting myself out here like this causes my words to be judged. Oh Lord, I pray that my words will speak truth.

I believe we are in some really scary times as the church. We have churches that don’t want to talk about sin, churches that only want to talk about grace, and now we’ve escalated that to erasing hell. We’d rather talk about how Jesus can make our life just the way we want it than to speak truth.

My standpoint: Is there a hell? Yes.

I’m not going to try and go through all the teaching, that’s not my gift. I’ll let Francis Chan do that, (aka Go buy his book)

The bible, the word of God, talks about the lake of fire:

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death

There is punishment without Christ:

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(and here are a bunch more)

That’s what the bible says, what Christ speaks, what the disciples taught. But it seems we’d rather not listen to that.

The bible tells us that we will be drawn to people who tickle our ears, we will seek out that sort of teaching. No hell, only grace…tickle tickle indeed.

The latest comes from Rob Bell’s replacement, Shane Hipps. Again, I’m not judging Shane. I think he is brilliant in so many ways. But I believe this new teaching is deceiving and I am judging his teaching.

Hipps: “It’s strange that so much passion and ink has been spilled over something that is all speculation.”

Hell is speculative? Christ told us about hell. It is a real place. A place we don’t have to go to. But a real place if we choose not to call him Lord. For me, I equate hell to the separation from God, an eternal punishment of spiritual hunger.

If there is no hell, exactly what is Christ the Savior of? “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” John 3:17 Save us from what?

And what is Christ talking about when He talks about hell? “fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28 Was Christ, all knowing God, unaware that hell no longer existed?

Hipps: “If you died, took pictures, and came back to life again, then you would know with certainty what happens after death.”

I’m not even sure cameras are allowed in hell. But really? That’s the argument that hell is speculation? Because we don’t have a polaroid of it? I’m going to skip that whole argument because it’s just silly. I think Shane was trying to be funny. Right?

Hipps: “If it were important to him, you’d think he would have written a book about it. Or preached a sermon or two. But he didn’t. After Jesus rose from the dead, he spends his time talking about this life.”

“they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” That’s Jesus talking. I’m not a bible scholar so I don’t know how many times Christ talks about it, or when or whatever, though I know the Revelation is full of it. But does he really need to say it twice?

If my son is being blatantly disobedient, all I have to do is walk over to his closet, take out the spatula and say “Parker, if you don’t ______ daddy will have to spank you.”

I don’t have to say it twice. The fact that I go on a business trip, bring home a surprise for him does negate the rules of the house.

Hipps: “It would seem Jesus is more concerned with this life than the next”

I’m not going to be the one to put words in God’s mouth or pretend I know what Jesus was thinking, but we can’t ignore what He said in the past. His sacrifice washes away our sin, not His truth. He told us about hell and eternal punishment, He then paid the price for us. It was important enough to Him to die so that we could have the ability to follow Him to His kingdom so that we don’t have to spend eternity without him.

That said, I do think Hipps has a great point that while we must be heavenward focused, that our belief in Christ should go beyond a get out of jail free card. In fact I struggle finding any biblical foundation that a person who says the “sinners prayer” (which we made up) simply so that they don’t go to hell (fire insurance as it was called at youth camp) has a real strong foundation or security.

So what?

Well, I would urge all of us to head the scripture when it says:

Romans 16:17 ESV
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

that we listen to Luke when he suggests:

Luke 12:57 ESV
And why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?

So that we can:

1 Corinthians 10:15 ESV
I speak as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say.

And please, no matter who takes the pulpit, get into scripture yourself. Know why you believe what you believe.

1 John 4:1 ESV
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

But, and this is harsh, I also am careful of who I let speak into my life:

Psalm 26:4-5
I do not sit with men of falsehood, nor do I consort with hypocrites. I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked.

2 John 1:9-11 ESV
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

And I will pray for Shane Hipps that he would use his new found platform to speak the truth of Christ.

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This entry was posted on Thursday, November 3rd, 2011 at 3:10 pm and is filed under ugh... . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

  • http://twitter.com/kristensolis Kristen Solis

    Totally agree. It’s tough and it isn’t the happiest and pleasant thing to talk about but we shouldn’t ignore it either simply because it’s a harsh reality.

    I wrote a little something about it too.
    http://kristensolis.blogspot.com/2011/10/in-erasing-hell-does-it-really-mean.html

  • Anonymous

    Thank you Kristen. I’ll be sure to check out your post.

    I think we’re so careful to be political correct that we become quiet timid wimps and allow the loud voices that bash the church get all the attention.

    It’s time we grew up, and said enough is enough.

  • Regan

    I think you nailed it.  If there is no hell from which to be saved, dying on a cross seems a bit extreme doesn’t it?  Shucks, Jesus could have just given out coupons or something.  If Hell doesn’t exist, Jesus’ going to Calvary was the greatest overreaction in the history of mankind.

  • http://ashleyjensen.net Ashley Jensen

    Yeah, I just read Francis Chan’s post this morning on ChurchLeaders.com and Hipps post yesterday. It’s sad that one person’s experience can override the what the bible clearly teaches… and even more sad that people lead with this kind of weak theology. Great post Michael.

  • http://ashleyjensen.net Ashley Jensen

    Hipps: “If it were important to him, you’d think he would have written a book about it. Or preached a sermon or two. But he didn’t. After Jesus rose from the dead, he spends his time talking about this life.”
    Fun Fact: Scholars say Jesus spoke of hell roughly 13% of all of His teaching.

  • http://twitter.com/Letter_T T Jay Carter

    Very well said! I just finished Chan’s Erasing Hell (which in this day and age is a must read). To not focus on hell being real is a drastic misstep by today’s church. If we erase hell, we erase the Gospel as well.

  • Anonymous

    It’s time we stopped following man and started following the Savior. The response to this post also shows me that it’s time that we stopped being quiet little mice and started speaking out against false teaching and proclaim the gospel!

  • Anonymous

    And Jesus must’ve felt silly. Guess I missed where he told the disciples, my bad, I died looked around and guess what? Hell is out of business. Who’dve thunk it?

  • http://twitter.com/Mike_Moody Michael Moody

    I’m with you 100%, we need to talk about this. Thank goodness our pastor preaches the whole Bible, not just parts that makes us feel good. Political correctness sure won’t get you into Heaven.

  • Becky

    I don’t understand how one can read Shane’s blog post (or Rob’s book) and come away with the idea that neither man believes in the reality of separation from God now and the possibility of separation from God after death. My experience with both men has been that: 1) there is a Hell (a separation from God). 2. Christ’s death of the Cross is the ONLY thing that makes reunion with God possible. 3. The breadth and depth and length of that act of atonement is unknown, and that we should be careful not to limit the power of Christ’s sacrifice. 4. Nothing about the unknown future and God’s desire to “restore all things” diminishes Christ’s urgent call to follow him now, repent now, partner now, be a reflection of God now. Here.

    I just don’t see the danger in the posture of an obedient heart and an open hand.

  • Shannon Ketchum

    Great post, Michael. So glad someone is willing to speak out about stuff like this. The truth definitely needs to be told.

  • Anonymous

    I’m not speaking about Bell’s teaching, didn’t read the book.

    In Shane Hipps’ own words:

    Hell is “all speculation”

    From his own words: 

    “This speculation is perfectly fine. As long as we recognize these are only our beliefs. And beliefs by nature are not certain, they are faith based assumptions.”

    Hell is just our belief, just an assumption.

    He goes onto imply that Christ wasn’t even concerned about it. 

    Out of Christ’s lips we read “fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”

    So I have Christ warning of hell and Hipps saying it’s nothing but speculation and don’t pay any attention to it. 

    Think about that. Christ died so that we wouldn’t go to hell, and he says pay no attention, just worry about your life today?

    You can’t say you believe in the bible and preach that which is contrary to what the bible says especially those things which Jesus Christ himself spoke.

  • http://twitter.com/cameron987 Cameron Smith

    I agree 100% that we can only speculate about what hell really is.  Here’s one definition of the word Speculate — “to take to be true on the basis of insufficient evidence.”  Yep.  We don’t have sufficient evidence of what hell is.  We have an equal amount of insufficient evidence about what heaven is, too. 

    I also speculate about Heaven, I’ve never been there, I can’t pretend to know what it’s really like.  I can’t pretend to fully_grasp what hell is like either.  None of us can.  I can also speculate about what it’s like to visit Egypt… I can make assumptions about what it’s like in Egypt based off what the Ambassador of Egypt tells me… and of course, I would believe what he says – but, until I’ve actually visited Egypt…until I put my feet on the ground there, I will never know what it’s truly like.

    I don’t discount for one minute the reality of a hell.. a place of separation from God… not for one minute. But I will never truly know, and neither will you, what it’s like… what it FEELS like… what it SMELLS like.. what it LOOKS like.. until we see it, feel it and smell it for ourselves.

  • Anonymous

    Right, but we’re not talking about fully grasping what hell will be like.

    While we do know it is described as “eternal punishment” which is enough for me, we’re not talking vacation spots here.

    He’s not talking about a description of hell, he’s pointing to the discussion of the existence of hell and his amazement that anyone would spend time on something that’s not certain and that Christ didn’t even care much about. This entire discussion isn’t about what hell is or isn’t like. It’s an invitation to live in the day and not worry about eternity.

    That’s against Christ’s own words, and something Satan (also real) would love you to buy into and our flesh eager to entertain.

  • Anonymous

    Right, but we’re not talking about fully grasping what hell will be like.

    While we do know it is described as “eternal punishment” which is enough for me, we’re not talking vacation spots here.

    He’s not talking about a description of hell, he’s pointing to the discussion of the existence of hell and his amazement that anyone would spend time on something that’s not certain and that Christ didn’t even care much about. This entire discussion isn’t about what hell is or isn’t like. It’s an invitation to live in the day and not worry about eternity.

    That’s against Christ’s own words, and something Satan (also real) would love you to buy into and our flesh eager to entertain.

  • Anonymous

    Right, but we’re not talking about fully grasping what hell will be like.

    While we do know it is described as “eternal punishment” which is enough for me, we’re not talking vacation spots here.

    He’s not talking about a description of hell, he’s pointing to the discussion of the existence of hell and his amazement that anyone would spend time on something that’s not certain and that Christ didn’t even care much about. This entire discussion isn’t about what hell is or isn’t like. It’s an invitation to live in the day and not worry about eternity.

    That’s against Christ’s own words, and something Satan (also real) would love you to buy into and our flesh eager to entertain.

  • guest

    I think Hipps post should be framed within the context of Love Wins. I think it was unresponsible by Hipps to be so short in his post and assume you’ve read Rob’s book and understand his view (which I think Becky summed up the best I’ve ever I heard).

    I found Love Wins to have some excellent points and great questions. I came to the same understanding of Bell’s intentions as Becky…which obviously a lot of people did not see his intentions the same way. I do think he could have done a better job of being less vague about certain things. He may have done that to leave it open ended on purpose…perhaps to sell more books. Which is irresponsible teaching at best. Something that can be just as bad as false teaching. 

  • Becky M

    Respectufully, I think you are wrong in your assumption that he is speculating about the _existence_ of hell. His blog post was in the context of the current discussions about hell (which is far broader than whether it exists or not, and one in which Love Wins asserts that it _does_ exist). I do see how his ambiguity about just what he’s speculating about could makes it difficult to pinpoint without the context of Love Wins. I think you’ve misinterpreted his post due to lack of context.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe. And certainly if this was from Bell. But lumps Love Wins in with all the others.

    I don’t think he really was that vague about his opinion. In fact I was surprised that he hadn’t learned from Bell to be more mysterious and open ended.

    Either way, this sort of teaching doesn’t belong in the church.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve seen this conversation, whether it be Bell or Chan, center around the existence of hell and whether or not it is a place where anyone would spend eternity.  Sure there are other factors, but at the heart of the debate is the reality of hell.

    Within that context he writes this reply. I don’t have to read all the books he mentions to know the context of debate.

    And honestly, take everything else away, and I have a huge problem with a spiritual teacher, a pastor leading people who doesn’t “have a theological position on heaven or hell”. 

    Becky, I know this is your home church and I can’t imagine my reaction to someone speaking out against my church. Thank you for being respectful within the conversation.