As my church’s Communications Director, I have [I think] the very cool and unique privilege of being on the Creative Team that develops our message series’. We’ve shied away from using blatant rip-offs of movies and TV show titles and themes in our effort to be “culturally relevant.” Instead, we’ve opted to create our own custom series branding.

That’s not to say we would “never” play off of a popular TV show or movie. We’re actually considering the possibility of it now for an upcoming series … for inspiration (as you said). But I think we would agree that merely taking a recognizable “secular” brand and repackaging it for our “Christian” uses certainly cheapens our message to some degree. I say, “C’mon, people. We’re better than that.”

Good thoughts.

Right on. There are certainly times when spinning pop culture, or doing a parody are spot on the best solutions. I think it all comes down to the reasoning behind it.

What’s funny, in a sad way, is that when we copy because we are actually too lazy to be creative but hide behind being ‘culturally relevant’, we end up being the exact opposite and just show that we are out of touch.

Thanks for adding to the conversation!

this is a great point, one that I hadn’t considered.
My question will always remain…why do we need to use any theme at all?

We have the greatest story of all time at our finger tips…why do we need to springboard off of “Pulp Fiction” to make a point?

I have a question for the poster;
You said that you did a series based on the Simpsons. Now, excluding the question of how much you borrowed or didn’t borrow from them, my question would be why? Why use the Simpsons?

If the people being preached to are Christians, then using something that glorifies sin like the Simpsons would seem to be hypocritical as you mentioned.
If the people being preached to are non-Christians then I would ask the same thing; why? Non-Christians need the gospel, pure and simple.

The issue with non-Christians is that we believe, deep down, that the word is just not good enough to convert the human soul without our help; our “cool delivery” or our “enjoyable concert” to loosen the potential convert up. We believe that just simply explaining the gospel to a human won’t cut it when the bible states that this is the ONLY way a human gets converted.

I love seeing the comments!

The Simpson series was effective because 1. It was a parody 2. The audience was a very different crowd, this was for an on campus college ministry. This is a ministry, and a pastor, that meets the students where they are. I posted the idea to show that I don’t think it is NEVER the right choice to spin pop culture, it should just be done rarely and done correctly.

Christ himself have ALWAYS used parables when teaching the truth to unbelievers. God made us creative so that we can bring the gospel to them just as Christ did, in a way that they can grab hold of.

I do agree with you Robert, the delivery should never out stage the message. Our delivery should exist to help in the the way the message is received.

Yikes, HOLYCOW!

Christ did NOT use parables when teaching the truth to unbelievers. Just the opposite.

Matthew 13:10-17 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
” ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

God created the WHOLE universe!! He created you and me and the little fishies in the ocean! The Holy Spirit lives in all who believe unto salvation…..can’t we tap into this creative supply without using the ‘culture’? After all, it would seem that those who are desperate for Christ would probably be pretty fed up with the culture of today, anyways!

Holycow,
I was asking why you think that we should use sinful things of the world to get the gospel across, not that we should use them sparingly!

I was going to reply to your post but Colleen not only beat me to it but said it better than I could have.

Again, just why do you think that using sinful worldly TV shows or movies or whatever is necessary to get the gospel message across?

Could it be because we think that the gospel itself, unadorned has no power on it’s own? That if you were to stand up in front of 400 college students and tell them the following:
1.) You are a sinner. You’ve broken God’s laws many thousands of times
2.) A punishment will exacted because of this.
3.) You deserve to be punished, and God owes you nothing.
3.) But God, amazingly merciful as He is, made a way for you to be saved from this punishment. He substituted His own son; Jesus Christ to be punished in your place, nailed to a cross, and to take the brunt of God’s wrath that was yours to take.
4.) After 3 days; Christ resurrected to life and now sits at the right hand of God.
5.) He did this not because you are worthy of it, or that He saw something good in you. He did it to show His amazing mercy and grace.
5.) He now commands you to repent of your sins, turn away from them and to put your hope for eternal life in the substitutionary death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. You have no other hope; it’s found only in this.

that we’d be afraid that the whole auditorium would empty out and nobody would be left?

That’s entirely possible. But it’s in God’s hands anyway. We are just to tell the truth.

I can see of no other reason to “use pop culture” when trying to get the gospel message across. If we have to define some of the words…so be it…but using the Simpson’s? nah…

One other thing concerning ‘stealing from sinners’ in regards to using the ‘culture’ for sermons, etc…

If you go into any high school today you will see that there is not one culture. There are goth, preps, boys who wear girl pants, girls who wear boy clothes, less popular, more popular, disenfranchised, those who have it all, and the list could go on and on.

There are kids who think the Simpson’s inane and worthless and others who wouldn’t miss an episode! Some kids like rock, others rap, and others who actually enjoy opera!

So….if one wanted to reach these young people “where they are” then you need only go to the one thing they all have in common. They are sinners in need of a Savior.

You don’t need slick marketing or stolen cultural gimmicks to tell someone that Jesus loves them regardless of where they are!

Colleen,
You are really bringing up some very good points; if you don’t mind, I’m going to “steal” from both posts for any future conversations of this type.

bob

“Come with me and we will preach to the sinners and show them the truth ” That would be a translation of “Follow me and I will make you fisher’s of men.”

Christ showed us how to speak so that people could understand (even though sadly many would hear and not believe). Christ absolutely spoke in parables:

“With many such parables he spoke the word to them as they were able to understand it. Without parables he did not speak to them, but to his own disciples he explained everything in private.” Mark 4:33-34

We love to preach sin and hell and while Christ certainly spoke of those things He reach people not by pointing out how desperate they are but by how much He loved them.

Of course I’m probably a bit more liberal than you, I wouldn’t consider a college student watching an episode of the Simpson’s a sin.

Very interesting, if very different, points of view.

Holycow,

I noticed that you didn’t directly interact with the points of our posts…you spoke past us and brought up new points while dodging previously made points.

You made an assertion:
“Christ himself have ALWAYS used parables when teaching the truth to unbelievers. God made us creative so that we can bring the gospel to them just as Christ did, in a way that they can grab hold of.”

Colleen pointed out that you were mistaken in your understanding of why Christ used parables…therefore it did NOT support your assertion that using the culture is based on a biblical teaching.

Please interact directly with this point and let’s not go down a rabbit trail just yet…let’s take this slowly and one point at a time…

What do you say?

I didn’t go point by point because this is a conversation, not an argument. We’re on the same side.

Sounds like you don’t think I addressed your opinion, I actually think I did but just in case…the point was made:

“Christ did NOT use parables when teaching the truth to unbelievers. Just the opposite.”

And that simply isn’t true. Directly from scripture we can learn that:

1. Christ spoke to unbelievers in parables
2. Christ spoke to unbeliever in parables so that they could understand

I didn’t say it, Mark said it.

The other point you made, “I was asking why you think that we should use sinful things of the world to get the gospel across” is simply putting words in my mouth. I don’t consider watching the Simpson’s to be an act of sin, maybe you do and that’s okay but I never said we should use sinful things to get the gospel across.

Let’s have the conversation, but let’s not attack…we are on the same team.

Holycow…
Again, you misread what I said. Please read my last post slowly and reply to Colleen’s point.

And I agree, this is a conversation but that doesn’t mean we just talk past each other to hear ourselves talk…we communicate right? That entails making our thoughts understood by the other person and INTERACTING with each others ideas.

I’ll cut/paste that question again.

You made an assertion:
“Christ himself have ALWAYS used parables when teaching the truth to unbelievers. God made us creative so that we can bring the gospel to them just as Christ did, in a way that they can grab hold of.”

Colleen pointed out that you were mistaken in your understanding of why Christ used parables…HE DID IT TO HIDE THE TRUTH, NOT EXPOSE IT…therefore it did NOT support your assertion that using the culture is based on a biblical teaching.

Please interact directly with this point and let’s not go down a rabbit trail just yet…let’s take this slowly and one point at a time…

What do you say?

Holycow, If you read the whole of Mark chapter 4 you will see that Jesus said, “so that, ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!” in regards to why He spoke in parables. (vs.12)

Later on in the chapter, the part you quoted, we see that Jesus had to privately explain the parables to His disciples…Why? Because the message was for the believer even though Christ put it out there publically. They were difficult to understand and taught great doctrinal truths.

Do the “Desperate Housewives” ripoffs you mentioned in your blog ever teach deep truths concerning marriage. Like how the relationship between Christ and the believers(His bride) is the mystery that was revealed through marriage? Do these ripoffs teach that a woman is to submit to her husband?? That he is the head of the family?

And, I haven’t actually ever made the assertion that watching the Simpsons is sin. I merely stated that by using the Simpsons (popular culture) you may be alienating those that Christ is trying to reach at that exact moment. Perhaps there are some who’s soil is fertile and ready for the seed….but they are turned off by a show they see as shallow and stupid.

All those kids in the audience have one thing in common, and it is not necessarily ‘popular culture’ (as defined by whichever pastor is preaching to them). The one thing in common, if you really want to “reach them where they are”, is that they are sinners in need of a Savior.

(As an aside, the Simpson’s aren’t popular because Marge and Homer love each other and have an intact marriage between one man and one woman. It is not popular because their children, at the end of the day, love the parents and are loved by their parents. It is not popular because of the small town feel where everyone knows one another and everything usually works out in the end. Though those things are true. It is popular because of the raunchy humor and disrespect the characters show for one another throughout. It is popular because of the drunkeness and lewdness and sometimes taudry behavior. Not exactly character qualities you want to promote in a new believer. And it is not something you would want to encourage them to put in their minds. Which is exactly what you are doing when you imitate their characters.)

Restudy the parables and see how difficult they are. Re-read them and see if they aren’t more difficult, deeper and much more contraversial than the fluff being stolen from today’s ‘popular’ culture.

You are absolutely right Colleen, we can put together the greatest graphics, the big promotions, etc. but if there lacks substance, if scripture and Christ are not the foundation of what is being taught, if there are no lives changed then it is all for nothing.

Church marketing doesn’t work for everyone, I  know that some even hate church marketing. I don’t believe one size fits all, and that’s ok. In the end though the truth of Christ must be preached because without that we are dead. We may not see eye to eye in the methods, but in that we agree.

I also agree that as a whole, I am not a fan of pop culture rip offs either.

Holycow,
If I read correctly, you and Colleen are not in agreement.
Colleen’s point is that the ONLY thing that any human has in common with another human is that we’re all condemned sinners who need a savior. She didn’t say that she differed in “method preference” with you; she said that referencing culture is a mistake on several levels.

Yikes… I know this is poking a hornets nest with a stick…but that’s what I do. It appears that this discussion (argument) is about methods. It is just as much a “method” to lead someone throught the “way of the master” or the “Romans Road” or even a “point by point presentation of the Gospel” as it is to use cultural reference to illustrate the good news.(Which is what the parables were) The disciples who we accept as “believers” listening to the parables didn’t pray a prayer, respond to a presentation of the “gospel” or walk down an isle…they merely responded to Jesus’ call to “Follow Me”.

Maybe what would be most useful to the kingdom would be to love our neighbors enough pray that any method…even if it is not our personal preference…would bear fruit, and trust Jesus to seperate the “tares” from the “wheat” in the judgement.

Don,
Respectfully, this isn’t a method discussion.
The question is: Why would anyone believe that they have to mix a worldly element such as a popular TV show that gratifies lewd behavior, raunchy dialog,and things generally not pointing in the direction of holiness, to explain the gospel message?

That’s the question?

Why would a pastor think that’s necessary?

Is the gospel that powerless that we have to have the Simpsons version?

Don,
Another thought just occurred to me concerning methods such as Way of the Master.

All that the WOTM is is asking questions. that’s it. No gimmicks, no TV shows…just asking about sin…

I’d say that that barely qualifies as a method.

But again…let’s not get sidetracked…we are asking why something like the Simpsons is necessary.

Why would Jesus use a “wicked judge” to explain prayer? Why would Jesus use a “greedy” man who found a treasure in a field and purchased the field without notifying it’s owners to explain the kingdom? Why would Jesus use a man who embezzled money from his master as an example of shrewd (but sinful) behavior…? Because Jesus used examples and methods, just as you and I both do today. I can imagine that the pharisees were “righteously incensed” at Jesus for using such worldly references in his preaching. If we were to go back a little further in time- Why would a prophet cook his meals over a dung fire…marry a prostitute…walk around naked??? Because God has entrusted the treasures of his kingdom to men such as you and I. Our job is to love our fellow man enough to communicate his truths to using whatever abilities and methods available. We will be judged…no doubt…but that is Gods gig.

Don, Jesus was clear in stating that the judge was “wicked” in your example. I am afraid that in today’s marketed churches they do not label things as “wicked” or “holy”.

The original article was about stealing from the popular culture to reach the world for Jesus. But….these churches/pastors are not simply holding the popular culture icons up and declaring the fruit of them wicked. Rather they are IMITATING them. They use them to cause laughter and cameraderie and to build repore. (no clue how to spell that last word!)

Jesus dined with the sinners, He hung out with them. But, He never imitated them. Those with whom He interacted either became like Him or they hated Him. That is so different from what we see in today’s Christian circles. What we see are people proclaiming to be Christians (Christ-like) but then imitating the world around them and saying, “See, Christianity can be cool! Look at us, we look and act and dress and boogey just like you!”

As far as the prophets doing the things they did… I do not believe there is any proof whatsoever in Scripture that gives us a license to imitate what the prophets did under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. If a man of God today can pour water all over a slab of steak and then catch it on fire through prayer, I may reconsider…but until then, I put it in the catagory that it happened once for a singular purpose and time. We are also told that Scripture is sufficient for teaching, correcting, etc…

OH, and how in the WORLD can you say that quoting from Scripture in a memorable form like “Romans Road” is comparable to quoting from popular culture icons in a comical, approving way??

I am sorry…I don’t pray that any method would be used to reach the world. I pray that godly men and women would stand up and say, “ENOUGH OF THIS GOD-HATING CULTURAL GARBAGE! WE KNOW NOTHING MORE THAN TO PREACH THE GOSPEL!” And then have them present the gospel by saying ‘only destruction comes from imitating the world. Jesus loves you and wants to save you from it!’

I pray that more Christians would forsake the popular clothing trends and hairstyles and nicest cars and biggest houses and help others escape those bondages also. I pray the churches are a safe haven sanctuary from the ‘popular culture’. I pray that they are a place where people can be transparent in their weaknesses and be loved and learn to be obedient to the Word of God….even if they aren’t ‘cool’ to the rest of the world.

Lord, that we could get off of this endless Merry~Go~Round of worldly deceit!.

(and no I am not saying we should all dress like we are from the 1820′s. Rather, I am talking about considering what God thinks about our clothing/makeup choices ahead of what everyone else is doing….or even what *I* want to dress/look like. And those are things that are personal to each individual as he draws closer to God.)

Everyone,
Again, Colleen brings it back to the central issue and asks the same question for the 100th time…

Is there a DIRECT INTERACTION with this question/idea or is this thread done?

have a good day and thanks for the discussion.

Robert, I do worry about the direction of ‘christianity’ today. The people of like mind with this sort of thinking is growing and I fear becoming the majority.

They like to appear to be non-confrontational. They like to say that God will judge, not us, the methods and manners. They like to say that the MOST important thing is seeing people saved.

Then you get a high-gloss flier in the mail inviting you to their churches. There they feel free to call (judge) our music boring and droning. They say (judge) that our sermons are dry and dusty and no longer relevant. Thereby judging us and denigrating us and confronting us in a very back-handed manner.

I don’t understand this.

Methods do matter. They speak to who you are and Who you trust when you market. They also convert people to the marketed object. Or….they are bait and switch techniques with the person not getting what they assumed they were buying.

Jesus is cool! Jesus is my homeboy! Jesus will heal your relationships. Jesus will _______!

Tell that to the Christians in Afghanistan who, when asked, think that there MIGHT be 10 fellow Afghani Christians in all of their country because there is NO way they can contact one another for fear of death or beatings or being homeless. Tell that to the sudanese women who answered the soldiers’ question of “Are you Christian or Muslim?”, by proclaiming they were Christian. The soldiers answered them back by gang raping them, cutting off their breasts then killing them.

In some countries having Jesus as your ‘homeboy’ means having EVERY relationship destroyed. It means losing everything, possibly your life.

American Christianity is an anomoly. It is also a HUGE blessing. One of which I am so happy to be a part of. But, I do remember we are enemies of the world’s ruler. We are in his cross-hairs, even when we are sitting pretty in our comfortable chairs, listening to relevant sermons, and swaying to the beat of popular ‘christian’ rock.

Market THAT truth.

Colleen,
I don’t believe the “point” of Jesus using the “wicked judge” was to point out the sin of the judge…his point was about prayer. He used something worldly, (wicked judges)that people of the day understood and talked about(culture) to make a spiritual point. He spoke to them using images they could identify with. He didn’t stay in the “sanctuary” of the synagogue…he spoke from unconventional places like boats and mountainsides. He dared to enter the world that the religious people of the day separated themselves from..and remain pure. He hung out with sinners, but didn’t imitate their lifestyle, he was an trend setter- not a trend follower,…I think he was very cool. That is why sinners flocked to Jesus…and pharisees hated him.

Thanks for the conversation. Be Blessed.

Don,
you keep saying that Jesus used worldly things that the people of the day understood and talked about to make a spiritual point.

Can you explain Jesus’ own words here in Matthew 13 explaining why he spoken in parables in light of your comment? It would appear that one of you is incorrect in their understanding….

Here is His words:
Matthew 13:10-17 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, ****but not to them.****

Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. ****This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:” ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people’s heart has become calloused;they hardly hear with their ears,and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,hear with their ears,understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.****

Now who is correct here?