This is me.
This is me repenting.
This is me repenting for not appreciating your intellect and creativity.

I’m excited to hear you speak at Cultivate

This is me.
This is me repenting.
This is me repenting for not appreciating your intellect and creativity.

I’m excited to hear you speak at Cultivate

For me, it all boils down to what feels like a trampling of a big value in favor of a lessor value. I believe that’s the reason the article evoked so much emotion.

Brad and I spoke on Tuesday. It was a good talk where I was able to affirm so many good things you guys do. I am and have been a really big fan. CMS has been a pretty amazing place. I just think that at the end of the day, you blunted what may have been a good topic by simply butchering the delivery by targeting Rick Warren.

I was pretty sarcastic in my responses. That’s on me. I’ll take full responsibility for that. But, there are some really important things in life and ministry and then there are some things that are important to us. I think the really thing in life and ministry was missed in favor of a really important thing to you and to a good number of designers.

Keep doing your thing, Michael…I’d try to grow through this one though…hopefully, I do as well.

For me, it all boils down to what feels like a trampling of a big value in favor of a lessor value. I believe that’s the reason the article evoked so much emotion.

Brad and I spoke on Tuesday. It was a good talk where I was able to affirm so many good things you guys do. I am and have been a really big fan. CMS has been a pretty amazing place. I just think that at the end of the day, you blunted what may have been a good topic by simply butchering the delivery by targeting Rick Warren.

I was pretty sarcastic in my responses. That’s on me. I’ll take full responsibility for that. But, there are some really important things in life and ministry and then there are some things that are important to us. I think the really thing in life and ministry was missed in favor of a really important thing to you and to a good number of designers.

Keep doing your thing, Michael…I’d try to grow through this one though…hopefully, I do as well.

Issues that are systematic often produce polar reactions: either you see the magic trick for what it is or you only see smoke and mirrors.

I’m going to list a couple examples of systematic injustice in hopes that anyone reading might find some insightful parallels: I can remember a time when (even as Christian) I had no sympathy for young kids growing up in poor neighborhoods who weren’t getting into colleges. My thoughts were, “If they were to work hard enough…” or “If they want it bad enough…” I can remember a time when I thought businesses shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions, because the “market” would govern them. The people who lose their jobs in the mean time and can’t feed their families should just move: “If they want it bad enough…” “If they are willing to work hard enough…” I can remember a time when I would pray with and give money to people on the streets only to walk away thinking, “They’re just weak…” I can remember a time when I would look at the young African-American boys I mentor and think horrible things about their fathers, because they were in jail, thinking “If they didn’t do crack, the wouldn’t be in jail…”

But then I started getting challenged on those statements. So I started researching the situations, talking with people who were in them. I started looking at the surrounding circumstances. And I began to learn what systematic injustice was. It was like my eyes were opened completely. Every time I was confronted with two possibilities: either I was just a better person then these people were (pride) or I was the beneficiary of a different system.

And that’s what systematic injustice is. It’s not denying that people making choices that affect their lot. It’s affirming that our choices aren’t enough for any of us to deserve good things It’s not people trying to be evil (because then it would be easy to see, point out, and fix). Like Michael has made so clear, Warren’s intent was almost certainly sincere and good. The way he went about it though, it plays into a system designed to devalue, marginalize, and in general, hurt people. Satan does this all the time: hides his tricks in the systems of the world. Because after all, we are so busy tearing each other down most of the time that we never have a chance to look at where the real problem lays.

Now of course, systems are created, maintained, and even redeemed by: people. That’s where we come in. On this issue, we might ask if it is really okay to lump “creatives” in with the poor, homeless, least, and lost. I think that issue has already been decidedly weighed in on. I’ll offer a different perspective: If I can’t minister to, and value the people I work with at a church, how do I ever expect to be able to do that with anyone else?!

Because it isn’t always about whether or not policies or choices that were made were correct. It is about real people hurting–and that is ALWAYS a problem, even if “I am right”. So I often I’m violent towards the very people I have committed my life to serving in Jesus’ name. I don’t want to be willing to trample over them for the sake of an idea or cause. And that goes for people of both sides of the “Christian” fence.

I’m thankful for all the energy that has been put into this conversation. I’m going to be remembering how I used to feel about things that I didn’t understand and praying that God will see fit to enlighten us all, especially when it comes to such heated issues.

John

ps. if you are wondering about any of the examples I gave above of systematic injustice above, or disagree with them, please email me personally and let’s discuss them, I’d rather not hijack the thread =)

Issues that are systematic often produce polar reactions: either you see the magic trick for what it is or you only see smoke and mirrors.

I’m going to list a couple examples of systematic injustice in hopes that anyone reading might find some insightful parallels: I can remember a time when (even as Christian) I had no sympathy for young kids growing up in poor neighborhoods who weren’t getting into colleges. My thoughts were, “If they were to work hard enough…” or “If they want it bad enough…” I can remember a time when I thought businesses shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions, because the “market” would govern them. The people who lose their jobs in the mean time and can’t feed their families should just move: “If they want it bad enough…” “If they are willing to work hard enough…” I can remember a time when I would pray with and give money to people on the streets only to walk away thinking, “They’re just weak…” I can remember a time when I would look at the young African-American boys I mentor and think horrible things about their fathers, because they were in jail, thinking “If they didn’t do crack, the wouldn’t be in jail…”

But then I started getting challenged on those statements. So I started researching the situations, talking with people who were in them. I started looking at the surrounding circumstances. And I began to learn what systematic injustice was. It was like my eyes were opened completely. Every time I was confronted with two possibilities: either I was just a better person then these people were (pride) or I was the beneficiary of a different system.

And that’s what systematic injustice is. It’s not denying that people making choices that affect their lot. It’s affirming that our choices aren’t enough for any of us to deserve good things It’s not people trying to be evil (because then it would be easy to see, point out, and fix). Like Michael has made so clear, Warren’s intent was almost certainly sincere and good. The way he went about it though, it plays into a system designed to devalue, marginalize, and in general, hurt people. Satan does this all the time: hides his tricks in the systems of the world. Because after all, we are so busy tearing each other down most of the time that we never have a chance to look at where the real problem lays.

Now of course, systems are created, maintained, and even redeemed by: people. That’s where we come in. On this issue, we might ask if it is really okay to lump “creatives” in with the poor, homeless, least, and lost. I think that issue has already been decidedly weighed in on. I’ll offer a different perspective: If I can’t minister to, and value the people I work with at a church, how do I ever expect to be able to do that with anyone else?!

Because it isn’t always about whether or not policies or choices that were made were correct. It is about real people hurting–and that is ALWAYS a problem, even if “I am right”. So I often I’m violent towards the very people I have committed my life to serving in Jesus’ name. I don’t want to be willing to trample over them for the sake of an idea or cause. And that goes for people of both sides of the “Christian” fence.

I’m thankful for all the energy that has been put into this conversation. I’m going to be remembering how I used to feel about things that I didn’t understand and praying that God will see fit to enlighten us all, especially when it comes to such heated issues.

John

ps. if you are wondering about any of the examples I gave above of systematic injustice above, or disagree with them, please email me personally and let’s discuss them, I’d rather not hijack the thread =)

I too have been pretty shocked by the reaction this topic has received. I think a lot of it comes from ignorance. I found people take a strong offense to that word, but part of the the reaction does seem to be coming from a true lack of knowledge and understanding on the subject. I’ve been especially saddened to see some of the most condescending and catty remarks come from pastors!

Another part of it, as Joe mentioned above, it that it really feels like a 1 Cor 12 scenario. It’s sad to watch a mouth try to gnaw off fingers spitefully. Conversely, seeing ministries where many different disciplines function together is an awesome sight.

I too have been pretty shocked by the reaction this topic has received. I think a lot of it comes from ignorance. I found people take a strong offense to that word, but part of the the reaction does seem to be coming from a true lack of knowledge and understanding on the subject. I’ve been especially saddened to see some of the most condescending and catty remarks come from pastors!

Another part of it, as Joe mentioned above, it that it really feels like a 1 Cor 12 scenario. It’s sad to watch a mouth try to gnaw off fingers spitefully. Conversely, seeing ministries where many different disciplines function together is an awesome sight.

I have enjoyed the creative partnership of working with two senior pastors (who were two of the best Holy Ghost inspired and power filled preachers I’ve ever heard) in their sermon prep. They knew that God made us a body with many parts and to function correctly, we all must work together using our unique skills as unto the Lord.

There again, I’ve also worked with senior pastors who arrogantly kept everyone at arms length. They were convinced they were The Man of God, the oracle; and who was a creative (or anyone else for that matter) to think they could add anything to their anointing or to the word they had been given.

Carl, my brother, we’re all on the same team. Really we are. And the primary way the world sees Jesus is through our love.

You might not agree with creatives (like Michael and me) but we’re all branches of the same tree… prune carefully.

I have enjoyed the creative partnership of working with two senior pastors (who were two of the best Holy Ghost inspired and power filled preachers I’ve ever heard) in their sermon prep. They knew that God made us a body with many parts and to function correctly, we all must work together using our unique skills as unto the Lord.

There again, I’ve also worked with senior pastors who arrogantly kept everyone at arms length. They were convinced they were The Man of God, the oracle; and who was a creative (or anyone else for that matter) to think they could add anything to their anointing or to the word they had been given.

Carl, my brother, we’re all on the same team. Really we are. And the primary way the world sees Jesus is through our love.

You might not agree with creatives (like Michael and me) but we’re all branches of the same tree… prune carefully.